This interview is for "Hailing Hellions," a Q&A series where I interview sex workers (or ex-sex workers) who have modeled for me and my Sex Positivity* book project. Today's guest is Kentucky Cryptid! This is the SFW version; click here for the SFW-version interview compendium!
*The longer title being Sex Positivity versus Sex Coercion, or Gothic Communism: Liberating Sex Work under Capitalism through Iconoclastic Art (2023). Part of an overarching movement that connects sex positivity to what I call "Gothic (gay-anarcho) Communism," Sex Positivity essentially provides a hybrid; i.e., one established between academic (Gothic, queer, game and Marxist) theories, and wherein applied theory towards universal liberation is achieved by challenging Capitalist Realism (the inability to imagine a world beyond Capitalism) at a grassroots level. To it, Gothic Communism specifically occurs through direct mutual worker action and informed intersectional solidarity relayed through Gothic poetics: BDSM, monsters, and kink, but specifically what I call "ludo-Gothic BDSM."
General CW: BDSM, Gothic content and theatrics (e.g., rape play and death theatre), as well as sex worker abuse and bigotry of various kinds (variable per interview); discussions of sex work, underwear photos/photos of sex toys, and fascism
Specific CW: murder/attempted murder, child abuse, institutional abuse (foster care), homelessness, transphobia, suicide, rape fantasies and rape play (CNC)
Concerning Images, Censorship and Permissions: All images are of the model or myself unless otherwise stated. As this is the SFW version of the interview, the images are relatively tame, cropped or censored; to see the spicier stuff each model offers, go to the NSFW version of this series on my website. Any publicly available images are exhibited for purposes of education, transformation and critique, thus fall under Fair Use; private nude material and collabs with models are specifically shared with permission from the original model(s). For more details about artist permissions, refer to the book disclaimer.
About the series: Like the book series it attaches to, "Hailing Hellions" aims to educate and critique; i.e., by raising awareness towards sex worker rights, but also gender-non-conformity through Gothic counterculture. This extends to gender identity (e.g., trans, enby or intersex) but also orientation and performance; i.e., BDSM and sex positivity through various Gothic theatrical roles that invite things beyond vanilla, heteronormative (thus conservative, reactionary and harmful) sexuality. I would consider this to be things like mommy dommes and consent-non-consent, breeding fantasies and heavy metal (e.g., Satanic material and the Gothic at large). Also, these questions are broader insofar as they cover wide praxial/poetic ideas and concepts. Regarding these, the opinions of the subject and myself are not identical, but often overlap through us collaborating together to raise awareness.
About the interviewee: Kentucky aka Fable is someone I met on Bluesky while looking to continue working with sex workers; i.e., after my book series initially concluded (re: "It Began with a Whisper," 2025), and after several more books in 2026. In short, I saw their work recently, liked it, and decided to reach out; they responded, and we went from there! Apart from this interview, Kentucky also appears in a recent essay discussing capital's Promethean (self-destructive) qualities: "Gothic Intersectionality" (2026)!
0. Persephone: Hi, everyone! My name is Persephone van der Waard. I'm a trans-woman erotic artist, sex worker, writer/author and researcher who specializes in cross-media studies; i.e., I have my independent PhD in Gothic poetics and ludo-Gothic BDSM (focusing on partially on Metroidvania).
Fable, could you introduce yourself and share a little about yourself with our audience?
Fable: Yes, of course! Thank you for taking the time to interview me! It is such a privilege really!
I come from a dead mining town on the border of Tennessee and Kentucky. It's a very harsh place. I grew up fighting as a survivalist, shooting and learning how to survive off the land in the woods (and more intensely in the community). I find some of my earliest memories on Rattlesnake Ridge: playing in the creek, finding smooth glass (while attempting to catch water moccasins that are trying to catch me). My mother was a sex worker for my younger life; we lived in a car and place-to-place. She did everything she could for me and my siblings but she just couldn't keep us for long. She taught me the art of tramping and not in the sense that most people understand it [read: hiking]—in the old way, I mean. I'm talking about the way that people used to do it, respectfully: as an exchange, nothing insincere. Mom married a military man, in her second marriage, and after 2001 that all changed; he was a different man and, like all the other men in her life, he was rough with her (to say the very least). And then onto her parents in Bakersfield California, where I experienced a world that I had never before—especially coming from Fort Wayne Wright!
But my biggest challenge was none of my family wanted anything to do with me. They sensed something in me. Queerness. I was sent to go meet (and live) with my biological father for the first time at twelve. And then the state took me away from the hell that he put me through. I would only be in school one year longer—long enough to fall in love, long enough to learn who I am, long enough to learn the deepest kind of pain (and the ugliest face) that the South has to offer. Foster care was hell. When my parents signed their rights away, I was aloof to the state and every whim they had—even indoctrination—but that didn't last. A lot of people say that Kentucky isn't in the South, but they haven't lived in that part of Kentucky. When I spent my last year in school, I met somebody that I really grew attached to; and it was new, it was strange, but it was natural and refreshing and amazing. But when my foster parents found out, they sent me to a place called Foothills academy—a place where they can just beat you without any sort of repercussions. That changed me. When I came back to town, years later, I heard that my boyfriend was killed, hung. That's what everybody told me and I was never able to find him again. I hope they're wrong but I carry it in my heart that they're not (especially from what I know about the town).
Inevitably, I aged out [of care] and was thrust into the world. Without [an] independent living program (or any sort of parents) I had to make my own life, had to find my own way. I don't sit quietly in my situations; I prefer to get out and do things, learn things, and I have! I've been all over the US—from Florida to Texas to Alaska (I just need to get to Hawaii, one of these days). In Texas, I worked with a Christian film director, which is funny. Last year, I worked for the number-one haunt in Kentucky (and the surrounding area) called "American Horror Plex." Great people, great lifestyle. I find that a lot of my life relies on the way that I communicate with people—more so than welding ever did, but I'd rather do that for myself anyways and use the rest for other people (especially those that deserve it). I went back, time and time again, to my hometown—and the last time, we organized with the other local activists and eventually got its first Pride; but the deal was if that went bad [then] it wouldn't happen again. Needless to say, people paid for protesters to come through the town to terrorize the young ones and made people cry. But they sure as heck failed because it's still going on! You can find me on the news there, too. Back then I was Catherine but they spelled it wrong—it's pretty funny. Most recently I decided to partake in a program to help house people while they work for room and board. Since then, I found my way to St. Louis now and I love it.
1. Persephone: This book project views sex positivity as a liberating act. What does sex positivity mean to you? Illustrating mutual consent; i.e., can porn illustrate mutual consent when sex workers are constantly dehumanized by the profit motive and the status quo?
Fable: Porn can only illustrate mutual consent while not dehumanizing sex workers; i.e., by not behaving like a McDonald's. It has to be in the workers' hands; otherwise, it represents oppression in the face of hunger (as not everyone is doing it for fun or enjoys it). How can that represent consent, if it's something you have to do to live? "Decriminalize it," I say! Don't legalize it; if you legalize it, you industrialize it and that is where things get very steep!
2.Persephone: In your mind, what is the biggest struggle facing sex workers today?
Fable: The political climate and religion, flat-out, specifically Evangelical Christianity. Because authoritarianism brings a lot of people to this position, these same people that put [sex workers] in that position tend to draw like flies; they continue to kick them [while they're] down and dehumanize them—all while avoiding and shirking the blame for it. There's also a huge lack of solidarity between certain groups; i.e., that should clearly be aligned, but have been turned against each other because of the strawman argument.
3. Persephone: How do you feel about sex work being work, thus paying sex workers for their labor? This can be unions, but also their representations in media at large.
Fable: Sex work is work. Just like anything else, it's exhausting and a lot of people that I know [who do sex work] often have been disabled. I've had time to think about this; I'm for small business, only. Going too big—going corporate, going global—is problematic when you get with a big company. When deals—ownership rights, contracts—get out of hand, so does the control of the situation and the finances and the lives of the workers. And let's not forget their mental health reflecting all just said! There's a time and place for everything, but ultimately the rights and ownership to the work should always belong to the worker in large degree unless otherwise agreed upon [and even then, context matters; i.e., coercion; e.g., K-pop slave contracts]. There's a lot of people out there that just snatch stuff up and sell it; i.e., as their own people—hungry people—need meds [food, or shelter, etc] while somebody makes a quick buck (and a bunch of followers) off of your face!
4. Persephone: What are your thoughts on Communism vs Capitalism using Gothic poetics? Can monsters be gay Commies?
Fable: Capitalism is a parasite we all live with and battle every day—one that seems [mutually] symbiotic but is not (some people get really good at it, after a while). As a green anarchist, I'd say my comrades are usually quite keen to spot any parasitic nonsense. It's not something I'm personally too worried about; good communities tend to flush out bad shit.
5a. Persephone: What drew you to the project/interested you in working on it together with me?
Fable: As an artist and activist, I'm never too unavailable to sit down and have a discussion like this. Honestly, though, I really need the exposure as I get back to my work. I got off the Internet before the start of the year—too poisonous for my health, but I'm revitalized. I can't work a typical job; I'm actually schizoaffective (there's other things but that's the big one). There's a lot of stigma around it, but I don't really struggle with it the way the TV likes to display—in fact, a lot of people have no idea [what it's really like].
5b. Persephone: How has that experience been for you? Can you describe it a little?
Fable: It's been rough [my past sex work] and I'm reconciling with: balancing doing what I want vs doing what I need to do—to make money and get back to where I was or better. I just need to help my audience find me! Once upon a time I was "softDragonprincess" (there was lots of slime content). Doing this [with you] was pretty fun though; I always appreciate good ideas and good things to ponder on!
6. Persephone: If you feel comfortable talking about it, can you talk about being GNC? What does that mean to you?
Fable: I didn't hear about any of that stuff until 2011, and I immediately aligned myself with non-binary—and later on genderqueer, sometimes demi-girl. Usually I just call myself a monster or a cryptid, now. First off, I don't see the point in aligning myself with one of two things; and second off, there's just so much more than that, and that's what I am, that's what I've always been, and I'm quite happy about it (even though I wrestled with it, to be sure); i.e., I can appreciate my feminine gender euphoria while also appreciating my androgynous gender euphoria. Really, the only people making it difficult are the ones questioning it and worried about it (read: bigots). It gets easier, though; I certainly don't care anymore [what they think]. It is quite interesting, though: I'm no stranger to being yelled at or attacked in public; but this one time, I went into a Goodwill and this lady screamed at me about how "I was a woman, not a man, and I need to dress like it." That was funny!
7. Persephone: What do you enjoy most about sex work? What got you started in it?
Fable: Necessity got me started but art and community kept me going. What I enjoy most about it is the creativity. Luckily for me, everybody seems to be doing mostly the same thing—with repeated shots over and over and similar projects, similar menus [see, mine: above]. I'm not judging them—if it ain't broke, don't fix it—but for me I have the option now of versatility. I can dip into other things that people aren't doing and that gives me an advantage, in my area; it brings people to me and tells them, "Hey, I'm open to what you might be into." That's fun. The lighting, the makeup, the location, the people—it's all great if you get the recipe right, but it loses [that] spark sometimes when it's out of necessity (not always, especially if you make it fun).
8. Persephone: Do you have a favorite piece of sex work that you've done, in terms of custom material?
Fable: Yes, actually! This one guy—far off, doing some contract work in some snowy mountains—was a very lonely poor fella. All he wanted was somebody to drag him around on a horse with a lasso on Red Dead Redemption and degrade him and spit on him and talk awful to him—just absolute dirt. That started my dom era. Really, really good money, it was!
9. Persephone: Do you friends and family know about the work that you do? How do you talk about it with other people who aren't sex workers; i.e., how do you communicate sex worker rights to non sex workers?
Fable: I am very vocally open about it! Of course, I don't bring it up to families or in inappropriate events or spaces. But if it's in conversation—and the topics being discussed match [my values]—I tend to chime in (and always for self-defense). It's a trade within so many other trades of itself. Like carpentry or welding.
I'd say that my sisters I helped escape from our hometown all know. They're my family and I don't mind—in fact, I'm quite proud of it! They're certainly proud of me! To quote a NOFX song ("Lori Meyers," 1994): "People think I sell my body but I merely sell my time. I ain't no Cinderella and I ain't waiting for no Prince to save me."
10. Persephone: What are your thoughts on TERFs in sex work; i.e., those who devalue GNC minorities (and other marginalized groups) in the same profession?
Fable: They're parasites—to be pulled out from underneath the skin of the community and exposed. If you can't bring positivity to a service, then how do you think you could ever provide sex positivity—or any sort of benefit to the community that you supposedly associate with you? They have no place, and the only good they do for the world is exposing themselves for the spotted ticks they are!
11. Persephone: How do you feel about billionaires? Israel and Palestine?
Fable: Billionaires shouldn't exist; it's a fundamental problem—one in which greed will bring about the end of the world through over-consumption. And people [the elite and their servants] are pushing it because they want their little "Jesus returns" prophecy to be fulfilled. That's why the United States are pushing so hard to have the war be fought—because they think they know what they're doing. They're within the structural foundation of society—have conveniently placed themselves strategically through colonialism, religion and authoritarianism*. None of this is a coincidence; it's all just playing into each other's hands. Those poor people just trying to live their lives, while their neighbors come over and kill them. They did nothing wrong. I don't understand how people can be so confused; there's literally one side where people are launching bombs just relentlessly at civilians and children, and another side of people trying to live their best life—the most normal life they can within the area they're allowed to be in, that is (which keeps changing and shrinking as their population shrinks). It's genocide and it's happening now.
*For more on this academically, read my analysis of John the Duncan's article, "The 'Hidden Roots' of Neoliberal Fascism" (2026), in "Transphobia (and Other Bigotries) in the Anti-Zionist Movement." —Perse
12a. Persephone: What are some of your favorite GNC pieces of media (e.g., I love Sense8 and Heartbreak High)? Do you have any GNC role models?
Fable: There's a movie I've been wanting to watch called Zerophilia (2005). Doom Patrol (2019), for sure! Hedwig and the Angry Inch (2001) is pretty cool (a little dated, though). Steven Universe (2013). Femtanyl (musician); Alexalotol (on Twitch). And surprisingly Saints Row 2 (2008), specifically! My role models growing up were David Bowie, Steven Irwin and Robin Williams. I dare not have another one, even if they inspire me. I guess you could say Fat Mike? Had a major huge impact on me and my life, too (and my philosophy and all of that)!
(source: Sergio C. Fanjul's "NOFX singer Fat Mike: 'Punk is played by cool people, not jerks,'" 2023)
12b. Persephone: To that, GNC people often find their families outside of their birth families; did you have to go elsewhere for that, or is your family relatively understanding of your queerness?
Fable: I met my mom, again, in 2014—a little bit before she decided to leave the world. She was overwhelmingly (and surprisingly) supportive! As for the rest, my chosen family does nothing but love me (and does the best they can to support me). All my family are queer folk; all queer folk are my family.
13. Persephone: What about sex workers? Do you have anyone you look up to in particular?
Fable: There was a penny dreadful of the Suicide Sisters, back in the day—one that I worked with (but not in this field), for a while. And she was so professionally kind, courteous and taught me a lot about how to treat others (and it mattered because she was also going through extreme back pain). I'd also say Jade Valkyrie inspires me a lot. She was a big inspiration to me—to keep going with my work and was always supportive and ready to give helpful, mature, honest, straightforward advice (with no bullshit).
14. Persephone: There's often a strong theatrical component to sex work and BDSM; i.e., costumes, gender roles, aesthetics of power and death, music, makeup. How do these things intersect for you, and do they cross over into real life for you? For example, do you find yourself wearing similar clothing and expressing yourself sex-positively when you're not on the clock?
Fable: Oh, absolutely! I don't change what the sun does in the sky! I've recently found out that I'm really into masks and costumes. That's always a lot of fun. Playing into other people's kinks is part of the job, but finding your own kinks while doing it is part of fulfillment.
15. Persephone: There's often an animal component to sexuality and gender expression, helping workers establish close bonds with each other and nature; i.e., furries, but also therians and various kinks; e.g., puppy play. How do you feel about these things, be they for work, pleasure, or both?
Fable: For work and pleasure I am a beast, a cryptid a monster—a three-headed shapeshifting dragon, if you will [a bit like Ghidorah, below]. There's nothing I love more than feeling species euphoria alongside gender euphoria!
(source: Film Central's "My Thoughts on: Ghidorah, the Three-Headed Monster (1964)," 2019]
Persephone: Sex workers are generally treated as monsters to harm and exploit under capital. Do you have a preferred way of expressing the humanity of sex workers, be that simply stating it or through the work that you do, art, or some combination, etc?
Fable: I will approach anybody that attempts to publicly demonize sex workers (with a healthy dose of education and clenched teeth). A lot of people don't [even] know they've been misinformed and that's part of misinformation. Unfortunately sex workers are victims, meaning the ones to blame; i.e., because they have more control over where they work and that scares people because [those who blame] know they can't manipulate and control [sex workers] like a temp service can a contractor. I think accentuating my form into something more twisted makes it more fantastical and thus the lie, the myth, less believable (and more something that belongs in fantasy, particularly fantasies). What's really going on is people want monsters; they're just bored of their lives, they're tired of everything that's happening to them, they're tired of all the same. I say give them monsters—fantastical ones—and then they will see: it's not really so scary. But remember [that] behind every mouth could be an asshole [monsters are gross].
17. Persephone: Do you have a particular aspect of liberation you like to focus on; e.g., fat liberation or decriminalizing sex work? To that, what's the difference between positive thinking and liberation in your eyes?
Fable: Sex work liberation. Queer liberation. Punk, goth, anarchist, Communist, non-Christian, and non-white liberation. The whole kids-in-cages thing, people getting shot in the face—and all for driving down the road and telling people to be good. People underneath the boot, gasping for air. Goddamnit, my heart is on fire; and I won't "stop, drop, and roll" because that might save my skin, but it won't save my soul!
18a. Persephone: How do you feel about BDSM and using calculated risk to confront and heal from trauma? I.e., using collars or whips to experience pain or control as pleasurable, not harmful (I love collars, for instance).
Fable: Damage control is therapy. As grey [a]sexual, I'm just not interested in penetration for myself (or oral really, all the time). It just doesn't interest me. It's not that I'm fighting it; it's that I just don't want it. Asphyxiation play changed my life, as did pain—brought me joy and pleasure and a place I never knew I could have! When I'm being bitten, scratched, whipped, beaten, punched, [and/or] slapped, I don't feel those [terrible] things that happened to me in my past; I don't feel my back, I don't feel my hip, I don't feel the sting in my eyeballs [while] they degrade. I only feel the bliss in the moment—something to carry me away. And often times, I tend to make a mess from it. I can sit high for minutes, but it requires both discipline, trial and error, and learning. I would never just jump into something without studying it first (or studying myself).
18b. Persephone: Was there ever a moment where you were on the fence about BDSM or sex work/in the closet, but something happened that changed everything? I.e., was it gradual or more a singular event that motivated you to change; or, were you always kind of out (for me, I decided to change after several bad exes, but also watching Stranger Things, and relating to Max's brush with Vecna in a GNC way)?
Fable: I was pretty vanilla for years, and then it just grew so boring that everything came to a halt. But then, I started to meet the right people and get more comfortable with myself. The only voice that really matters is the one you hear in your head; i.e., while you're laying down trying to rest and get to sleep. If that one's not bothering you and you're not being a horrible person, then go ahead and put that slime on your cock. Study inflation, get that rope class—whatever it is, if it's not hurting someone else and it's consensual. If you're never given [a chance] to allow yourself to have pleasure, then you'll never be able to experience the things you want the most!
19. Persephone: Does expressing yourself in a dehumanized BDSM position (e.g., CNC or living latex, etc) or state of existence speak to your humanity as something to value?
Fable: I find I have uniquely interesting (and messed-up) fantasies about myself: being wrapped in plastic after being beaten/taken "advantage of" (CNC) by a group of people, [then] dropped off with my stuff; sexual combat* while being chased in the woods at night. Oftentimes, I'll follow these bread crumbs back and find it's because of my abandonment issues—my CPTSD and [the] narcissists [these drew] to me. I just wish they would have done these things to me! Instead, now I genuinely want these things; I value that because I want it and it's not being forced upon me! It's funny how some things flip (CNC). Still can't screw my girlfriend in her sleep like she wants, though (it just doesn't feel right for myself personally, but I guess that's a reason why polyamory works in the dynamic we have)!
*As a researcher (and avid fan) of Amazonomachia, I approve! —Perse
20. Persephone: What got you interested in BDSM? Do you have a preference in terms of what you give or receive?
Fable: No doms. I'd prefer no penetration but that's not always realistic. I'm a conditional sub, and I don't tend to work from that angle unless it benefits me greatly (which I can do but it puts me in a vulnerable headspace).
21. Persephone: In your mind, is BDSM inherently sexual? If so or if not, can you explain why?
Fable: It's definitely psychological. I'm not sure if I could speak to whether it's inherently sexual or not, because it plays into a lot of our own development and even into things that we can't help. So sometimes fulfillment is therapy and not a sexual activity, but also therapy is in sex. Sometimes sex can be therapy and that's where I get lost—where I feel like I might not have enough information to give you a solid answer.
22. Persephone: Does BDSM inform the sex work that you do in an educational or therapeutic way?
Fable: Soft education—first therapeutic, then more educational after reflection.
23. Persephone: In terms of calculated risk, how does it feel to surrender some degree of power in a scenario where you can't actually be harmed? Or vice versa, if you have more power? Do you have a preference and if so, why?
Fable: I give off "Final Girl" energy. It's a rare thing for me to "give" myself, in that way. Often it's for my own pleasure and not someone else's (but if I could make money doing so, I would). I prefer to leave my vulnerable side with those I feel comfortable with. Otherwise, it's like jumping on a trampoline that might rip (in the cautious area of my mind, at least). But when I do get there—oh, goodness—there's nothing more sacred to me! There's nothing that feels more safe to me than me then being at someone I loves' mercy: knowing I'm safe, with their hand on my throat (and a knife in the other)!
24 Persephone: If you feel comfortable answering, can theatrical disempowerment feel healing or therapeutic to you in regards to real trauma?
Fable: A lot of people are burdened by the heavy weight of their lives, and sometimes disempowerment can really help with just releasing all of that (for a while). For myself, that's what it is, at least. There's just so much else to worry about; I'd rather melt or be someone's prey for a while and focus on that.
25. Persephone: What's the most stressful thing about sex work? The most liberating?
Fable: [The most stressful is] someone might find me and kill me (though I'm not so much worried about that as I am the [final] ending). The most liberating thing is [that] my confidence is never higher [save] when I'm active!
26. Persephone: What are the benefits to doing sex work in today's day an age versus in the past? What do you think needs to improve; e.g., open reactionary bigots versus moderate SWERFs posturing as feminists speaking for all groups?
Fable: Community and connection are the biggest benefit, in my opinion; but this also means dumbasses can unite (fascists). On the flip side, it also means that more people are going to know about their hatred. A lot of people complain about cancel culture, but I think it's a wonderful thing. Tell me who's a piece of shit, please!
27a. Persephone: What are your favorite monsters (i.e., undead, demons, and or anthromorphs) and why?
Fable: Shapeshifters. Zombies. Dragons. I relate to all of these (my heart has stopped three times that I'm aware of); i.e., I really like to change shape, myself, according to when it is needed and appropriate. I am a dragon.
(source tweet: Ckaiadn, 6/21/2024)
27b. Persephone: Media-wise, do you like to read, watch movies, and or play videogames just for fun, but also to gather ideas about gender-non-conformity expression, BDSM and other sex-positive devices?
Fable: I have always struggled with my eyes and dyslexia, so comic books have been really big for me. I would always highly recommend Saga (2012) by Image Comics, and I really associate with The Walking Dead (2003). I know everybody sees that show and they sigh and they say, "Oh, it's zombies"; but no, they only see it that way because they haven't been living in the apocalypse as long as I have! Fallout and Elder Scrolls really helped me discover myself, and [to] get over a lot of trauma and a lot of things I've seen. It's funny—Morrowind (2003) why I'm a "scaly" [a reptile furry] and Fallout's why I got over things I can't talk about. But for sex positivity? Oh, goodness, check out Saga!
28. Persephone: What are your thoughts on sex/porn and art, business and pleasure? I like to mix them to form healthier boundaries established between workers; how do you feel about this?
Fable: Oh, yeah—s long as it's separated from areas where people can't wander in without knowing what they're doing, that is! [My last job] had a dedicated nudist area, for example. I see no problem with it, [as] it brings more positivity and normalcy to the culture; e.g., I'll throw logs while people are staring at my bits.
29. Persephone: Per my arguments, Capitalism sexualizes and fetishizes all workers to serve profit, leading to genocide. Keeping that in mind, what is the best way to achieve intersectional solidarity using Gothic poetics?
Fable: To recognize the macabre within the subject, itself. Raise it up, give it a spotlight; shine it real freaking bright so everybody can see. Normalize the rejection of it [e.g., genocide]. I'm sure many others can provide more solutions; and really the only way [that I see] is with all of them, relentlessly.
30. Persephone: Can you describe your own struggles with achieving liberation/humanization as a GNC sex worker?
Fable: I've been attacked, I've been shot at, I've been chased by trucks; I've been threatened and I've had to learn how to fight. It was a must. I learned how to shoot, early on, and I learned about safety and control. I learned about first aid; I learned about sociology, philosophy—a bit about psychology. In fact, practically everything I've done to improve myself is to escape boredom—or opposing something that happened to me for being queer.
31. Persephone: I view sex work as an important means of de facto (extracurricular) education; i.e., entertainment, but also a means of humanizing people within the practice at large. How do you feel about this? Can we learn from art and porn as a means of humanizing marginalized groups?
Fable: Porn is an art and a reflection of its character, and therefore humanizing of its character. The dehumanizing starts within outliers who need a quick getaway from their problems—thus want to point and say, "Hey, that's pretty fucked up! Look over there!" But really people are just confused and don't know how to react, so they look to see how people tell them to react and that plays right into [the elite's] hands. In that moment, they're being told how to react; i.e., by their gestures, their actions. Education is the most powerful tool against ignorance and confusion.
32. Persephone: I value establishing mutual trust, healthy communication and boundary formation/negotiation and respect, seeing them to be the most vital qualities in any relationship. Do you agree, and if so, why?
Fable: In the end—when we have nothing, no possessions, and we're out in the middle of nowhere—all we really have is our character. And the only people who put that to the test [are those] with nothing. That's why these people tend to be the nicest, the most sincere (with [some] mystery behind it).
33. Persephone: How do you orient and what are your thoughts on polyamory insofar as it affects your work? For the layperson/uninitiated, how would you describe the difference between a fuck buddy/FWB and other more casual relationships versus serious ones? Can people be friends and still have sex in a casual manner? What is the most valuable aspect of a friendship regardless if sex is a part of the equation or not?
Fable: Abandonment and trauma have impacted my life diversely. In such a way, it still has influence on my decision-making and stability. I don't have one home; I tend to travel and experience life with wonderful and amazing people (sometimes switching who I stay with). I get out and I have fun, but beyond that I keep a circle of very important people close to my heart. There are parts of life I'll never experience and parts of life I missed, relationships I never had and things I never got to do. I don't sit quietly inside my situation. The art of the brat—the art of tramping—is an art not lost to its artist, but a language publicly shamed for its image. People need love and genuine connections; I need a LOT of attention. A dynamic is a part of everyone's life, and we tend to integrate them so deeply within ourselves that we gain a habit; i.e., of forgetting what it does and how to create it. I feel that sometimes; when other people see it, it's something so alien to them they do what they do with most things unfamiliar to them: they get angry, panicked or confused.
But let's not get mixed up in understanding! Here's an example [specifically different partners of mine]: My Moonlight offered a type of rawness and support—one that almost seems like a mentor, however we sharpened each other with our wisdom; my bundle of bitches offer me backbone and discipline (with a dynamic, loving, firm, authoritative, dominant hand); my King offers me tenderness and respite (and his time is as precious to me as he is); my baby girl is just that—she's a widdle, tiny, itty-bitty baby girl, and one who needs reminding of how precious and adorable (and cute and sweet) she is! My cling's position [a date, right off the bat] usually implies someone who can offer more physical time and connection—a direct lifeline of connection and intimacy that develops into a role of their own. My friends-with-benefits offer fun/a way to share things together without making things too complicated (or getting mixed up in emotions or scheduling and all the delicacy of relationships).
I find that I'm significantly better when I surround myself with the right people; I don't like to be alone, but I can't put all that on one person. I do my best to make sure everyone is happy and everything is fair. Schedules really, really matter! Each moment, with any person, is a genuine exchange of different types and layers of love and experience and emotion. It's imperative that I maintain my relationships and continue learning and sharing and communicating with my partners. Avoiding "polysaturation" is unfortunately a trial-and-error process. I think it's easier to maintain such relationship connections when not completely rooted to one area for myself, but it's not always that way! I'm more stable, less anxious, less depressed, less dysfunctional when I give to other people, and [when] all I have to give is my love that's really all I need! I didn't know that for so very long. Think of that: a severely traumatized orphan who was thrown into the world with NOTHING still loving, still hoping, still making connections—not for money or objects or anything but time and affection!
If you [the reader] would like to try and explore polyamory, my advice would be the same with any relationship: be open no matter how it makes you feel with your partner. A good relationship doesn't have to be happy, 100% of the time, as long as they're communicating and healthy. Get checked often. Let others help you and be a part of your life—if that's what they really want—but don't rush anything you [actually] want to last. Quick math can ruin a plan. And finally, never set expectations on other people unless all parties are in agreement. Consent matters, and other partners should not be responsible for your mental health; nor responsible for your mood or life, when it is unmanaged. Remember to practice healthy mindsets and reflection; i.e., on effects of involuntary codependency on yourself and the people it impacts!
34. Persephone: If you have a partner, do they know about the work that you do? How comfortable are they with it?
Fable: Oh, yeah, they know about it; we met while I was doing my first go around! My current nesting partner is absolutely supportive in every way. Such a wonderful person!
35. Persephone: How did you and your partner meet? What do you think makes an ideal partner?
Fable: I used to travel around the US to meet with other trans folk. We would play video games and take pictures and drink, and we had this wheel that we would spin during parties that had varied punishments—it was a very fun time! I think what strengthens [me] the most, though, is the fact that my partner (the one before the partner I'm with now) tried so very hard to keep me to herself—[so much so] that it drove her to blocking who I'm dating now and for two years! We didn't have contact, and my heart yearned so much, and I found her again one day and she still cared about me! She stuck through the worst of it with me, is very considerate, and always so giving. If it wasn't for her, I would not be in the position I'm in now and that would not be good.
36. Persephone: What advice would you give incels, nice guys and other cis-het men (or token groups; e.g., TERFs and cis-queer tokens, etc) displaying bigoted attitudes towards women and other marginalized groups?
Fable: It's a very unattractive look, if you really can't change the way you feel inside. You need to fix your heart and educate yourself if you ever want to have any sort of sustainable, reliable relationship; e.g., because if you want a family, you're going to have to respect other people in that case. If you want a happy life, you're going to have to get along with (thus respect) other people. You're going to have a hard time if you try to be the playground bully everywhere you go—making fun of everything you see, and then suddenly it's your life that's a joke. Regret isn't great, in speed, but definitely terrible in acceleration!
37. Persephone: Likewise, what advice would you give to more privileged groups that need to understand the value of listening to those more oppressed than them in a larger struggle for liberation?
Fable: Education, education, education! Discipline yourself; expose yourself to new situations, new people. Open your mind learn more and build on yourself; i.e., instead of degrading yourself with hateful nonsense. You have no idea how many eyes see you and you have no idea how your body might see itself with the way you talk.
Editor's note: As someone suffering from imposter's syndrome (though less of it, these days), I have the opposite problem: too many eyes! —Perse
38. Persephone: What are your thoughts on GNC people who are still in the closet but thinking about coming out? Where should they go and who should they talk to?
Fable: Everybody's journey is their own and unique to their situation, but I will tell you what helped me the most: leaving my hometown, reaching out to other people like me, being open to new ideas and things I may be unfamiliar with or ignorant about. There's still much more of a journey to go, and it's a great one to have! There are bumps and there could be falls; but it's always going to be underneath your feet, and it's your place, your opportunity! Take it because your happiness matters, your life matters, your end goal matters! I know it may seem that it's been several years for such a long time already (for the sedentary among us), but little goals build up and catch up and it's a beautiful thing to just see it through. It's worth it. Explore yourself, don't be afraid of that! Also remember that "passing" culture is toxic and bringing up the irresistible questions—"Am I passing? Am I this enough, am I that enough?"—is friendly fire. Be nice to yourself; you deserve love.
39. Persephone: Similarly, for those thinking about doing sex work for the first time, where is a good place to start with that; i.e., what advice would you give to those starting out based on your own experiences?
Fable: Secure your safety first, check out the kink community (maybe Fetlife), and avoid Twitter. Never get into something that invades or harms your body without extensively studying it, and practicing it with someone who knows what they're doing. Even then, carry skepticism (read: even when you're experienced).
40a1. Persephone: What's your idea of the perfect date? The ideal fuck? Do you have an ideal experience of either you'd like to share?
Fable: Being picked up at my house and complimented the whole time; i.e., being driven around town, to random locations while my date tells me all these wonderful lovely things... and then they bring me back to their house: by my throat out of their car and chain me to their bed. They bring out their friends, who take advantage of me while biting, scratching, choking, and hitting me (and preferably while wearing animal masks). Oh, and two cuties sucking on my tits the whole time!
40a2. Persephone: What's your wildest/most enjoyable sexual encounter (e.g., sex in public, in the kitchen while the roomies are home, etc)?
Fable: Sex on a putt-putt golf course at midnight, on Friday the 13th. Destroyed the windmill.
Editor's note: Happy Gilmore (1998) suddenly leaps to mind: "You're gonna die, clown!"
40b. Persephone: For you, what's the cutest thing a partner can do, in bed or out? For example, my partner Bay loves it when new partners come really fast/are having their first time PIV with Bay. Consent, intimacy and affection are all really sexy and fun for Bay. How about you?
Fable: Looking up to me and asking me kindly to be gentle with them, because of course I am (unless they ask otherwise)!
40c. Persephone: What are your thoughts on consensual voyeurism and exhibitionism as educational/entertaining acts? Does being able to be more open and communicative help us learn from each other to see each other as human and also what to watch out for/what to challenge at a systemic level?
Fable: People have bodies. Honestly, people need to quit being weird about it. It all goes back to a religion thing and controlling other people. If anything, seeing more naked people—specifically naked trans women—makes it seem less weird because people are making it less weird; i.e., as they learn: that it's nothing so strange or scary as what they've been told. If someone tries to shame you for having body parts, they're cooked already. They're not a person, anymore—[aren't] the kind you should listen or pay attention to, anyways. They're just not worth your time or energy (and not paying any energy to something really takes the power away from it (with "don't look for it, it'll find you" one of the codes I live by).
41a. Persephone: Does fucking to music, roleplay and other theatrical elements make sex better?
Fable: I would love to hang from a ceiling while King 810 played "Kill 'Em All" (2014). I listen to a lot of Haircuts for Men during intimacy, too, and now I just can't go without music. Yeah, it makes for better sex. And intimacy means enhancing the senses for lots of people, and that's just what music does (especially emotionally).
42. Persephone: If you have any ace leanings, would you like to talk about that in relation to the work that you do?
Fable: I don't feel the need to be penetrated or to penetrate or to have my balls and cock in anybody's mouth. I do it if it makes other people happy or gives me money to survive. I hate that, and if it was up to me I wouldn't do it until I was ready (and you know what it is and I won't). Honestly, sometimes I'll just have my partner put pressure on my line of raft [the perineum] and I get plenty out of that. Usually, though, I just want somebody to suck on my tits!
43. Persephone: Connections between sex workers and clients is often discrete under capital. Can a degree of friendship and intimacy make for a better relationship between the two?
Fable: No, and I'm sorry. Sure you can have friends that are your clients, but you don't want your clients to be your friends. There has to be a distinct disconnect in case the worst happens (or we have to move on). Sure, it would be great and ideal to have somebody that's consistent, but there's always the potential that something could happen or they might disagree with something. There needs to be a healthy disconnect for everybody involved.
44. Persephone: For people struggling with gender expectations like being the right size or pleasing one's partner and enjoying oneself, is there anything you might recommend?
Fable: Find your favorite part about yourself and focus on it, fixate on it, love it. If you can't then make one, or have someone help you make one (consensually of course). For two years during the start of my transition, I would lay down in bed and repeat to myself: "I am pretty, I am beautiful, I am feminine." Positive self-talk matters; i.e., confidence is [often] seen or heard, not felt: "You're doing fine, friend."
45. Persephone: How does it feel being your true self, despite the risks of gay panic and similar moral panics in America and around the world?
Fable: I used to think about killing myself regularly, and now I don't. I'm not saying that depression doesn't plague me or that I don't go to dark places, but I could never throw away something that I've worked so hard for. And for the others [who] helped me to achieve this, [doing so] would be wasteful, disrespectful, and honestly no fun! I'm in life for the experience.
(source: Newt Schottelkotte's "Queer in Appalachia," 2023)
46. Persephone: Is there anything else you'd like to say or add before we conclude?
Fable: "2 Queer" [two-spirit] is a word of pride within its community—[as in,] from where I come from in the Appalachia [mountains]: a meaningful representation, a symbol of defiance, and a promise that we will prevail through the worst of times together. In the kink and art community, queer folk are vital to self-exploration and reflection. Our community historically and currently have been, and are, at the risk of others—both for the sake of living comfortably/as themselves; i.e., a byproduct of the political and religious scapegoat/strawman argument on queer folk, in the past; re: in [the] effort to secure political ends. Doing so has led to public scorn, personal attacks, assault, and even "selective liquidation" [murder[ of members even suspected of being queer in any way! These things still happen, and are at high risk of going back to this point [world-wide]. That is why we must celebrate, lift up, and recognize our queers and our queer artist[s] and disarm the idea that we are evil and disgusting and "wrong" in some way—for not only living life but celebrating it because it's precious and valuable and delicate and worth the risk for living!
Raise up your queers and hold them high! Others see you; others are inspired to be themselves by you: You are worth it. You are loved. We need to show each other that community exists not only within a common goal, but the right to choose who and how we love and express ourselves.
47. Persephone: Thanks for taking the time to answer these questions, and also for working on Sex Positivity with me. If people want to follow you, where can they follow you and support what you do?
Fable: Oooh, thank you! [Here they are (digital art, traditional art and photography are included within these categories. Poetry, too, if you like that stuff): Bluesky, Fansly, Fetlife, Instagram, Twitch, Deviant Art, Snapchat: Fableforestrain, Discord: reptiliansapphic.] Also, thank you so very much! This has been fun and a delight!
